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War Pong
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Poll Result
  How good is War Pong?  
 
It's super!
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
It's a good distraction.
27%
 27%  [ 3 ]
It's alright, but you know...
18%
 18%  [ 2 ]
Could be better.
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
It's bad, but it could be worse.
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
This sucks! Why did you make me waste my time on it?
27%
 27%  [ 3 ]
 
  Total Votes : 11  

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Konedima
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnh wrote:
So all in all, great job!
Thanks! I guess since it IS open source I should document the code better. As for the example you gave earlier, "If bdx=1 Then bx = bx - bxs" the variables in that are:
    bdx=ball direction x (is the ball moving left or right?)
    bx=ball x (the x location of the ball)
    bxs=ball x speed (how fast is the ball moving left or right?)
In other words, easy to understand if you know what you're looking for.
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Johnh



Joined: 06 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it makes alot more sense now that I know what the variables mean.
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to revive an old topic (actually, no I don't... duh) but War Pong 0.09 is nearly done. The changes:
    2 new skins, Monotone and Handdrawn (yes, I know that it's spelt wrong).
    Different skin loading system. Now you'll still get illegal memory address errors, but for a different reason... more on that later. Smile
    Fixed a couple of bugs.
    Added different ways to draw bats.
    Slightly updated website to improve readability.
    I finally updated the skinning guide (with the one update that previous skins will work with).
...and that's about it.

Skin Loading Changes
People were getting illegal memory address errors because of the way the game looked for skins (the "start in" directory of the shortcut). This is changed so the skin is specified by the arguments given on the command line. For example, loading the Retro War skin is "War Pong 0.09" retrowar1, retrowar being the directory name and 1 being the so-called "drawcode". 1 means draw from the middle of the large image, 2 means draw from the top, 3 means draw from the bottom, anything else there gives you a friendly error. Hopefully this should help (I think I've gotten my head around NSIS scripting enough to do it reliably in the installer).

War Pong on a diet
Because some (read: most) people don't need zillions of skins, I'll release a light version simultaneously with the full version. The light version only has the Retro War skin, so it should shave hundreds of kilobytes off the download. That was supposed to sound sarcastic. For the next version I might try and advance my NSIS knowledge to the point where the full version has a choice of what skins to install.

This source is still too damn confusing!
Yes, it is... I haven't cleaned up or commented the code or anything... sorry. I consider getting it out there into people's hands more important (meaning I should probably think about the order of my priorities). It was easy on Galaxy Invaders because I started it that way, however War Pong by now has so many variables that it would take ages to find and document them all.

What about Galaxy Invaders?
I have love enough for two! If I get around to it, I'll have to find love enough for three since I have an idea for a somewhat original single-player focused game. I'm thinking maybe an alternate update schedule where each game gets an update in turn.

What took so long?
I've been busy... school work, Galaxy Invaders and stuff.

So why can't we see it now?
I still have to do the entire Handdrawn skin. That means drawing it somehow making it fit. Since this update doesn't have any significant gameplay updates I think people can wait (probably another reason I need to get my priorities straight).

Can you give us an idea of the new skins?
Monotone has changed since the last screenshot I posted. It looks more like Retro War now with a greyscale version of the Retro War background. I've also managed to squeeze the files down more... now they barely add 75kb to the installer and only take up about 800kb of space when installed. Handdrawn is going to be the first skin not made on the computer, I'm actually going to use coloured pencils so I'll only use photoshop for minor editing and to make it all actually fit (since I don't think I can draw that well to scale... or at all).

Any plans for the future of War Pong?
Is actually making a good game a plan? What I should probably do is document the code thoroughly and make a decent website for the game. As for what else... I don't know. I'm thinking I could do something with bullet-ball collisions, but I'm not sure what.

Anything else you'd like to say?
Please spread the word... tell your friends... buy me advertising in a newspaper... buy Microsoft so War Pong can come packaged with Windows. Seriously, It's only had 2 downloads in the last week. Galaxy Invaders has three times that, so thanks for that. Although maybe last week's figures aren't exactly representative since the total is 111-15 in War Pong's favour.

Will you shut up now?
You want me to? I'm not sure I want to... I'm quite a chatterbox.

Thanks for the interview, Konedima.
You're welcome, Konedima.

There we go, the second sign of craziness. Not only am I talking to myself, I'm interviewing myself.
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an early Christmas present (and because I feel somewhat guilty for sitting on it for weeks without doing anything), I present War Pong 0.09.

There isn't much new in this version, it's basically bug fixes and a new skin (Monotone, a greyscale version of the Retro War skin).

Hopefully I have ended once and for all the dreaded "illegal memory address" error as it now uses command line options to determine the skin (and skin draw mode, basically the only new feature).
That did cause a problem because I realised just before I uploaded it that the installer script was wrong and would cause errors on three of the skins.

Now hopefully if there's something wrong you'll get a much friendlier error message (if you still get an "Illegal Memory Address" error, make sure you spelled the skin directory right in the command line, but I plan on replacing that with a friendlier error next version, whenever that is).

If you don't like all the skins (and be honest, who does?) there is a light version available that just has the Retro War skin, it's about two thirds the download size of the full one (though about one third of the install size) but personally I don't see a problem as it was never excessively big in the first place.

I've updated the website to make it a bit more readable (basically I put the news section in a table, and that's it), but I also updated the skinning guide (I love fate... I update the skinning guide the one time previous version skins are still compatible).

As always you can get it from http://warpong.sourceforge.net.

I would have liked to include a Christmas skin, but I ran out of time. Maybe for next version, even though it would be a bit late (or very early depending on your point of view and when it comes out).

If you're just interested in War Pong, you can stop reading now. If you want to know about what I plan to do next, keep reading.

During the long school holidays which are on now (5 weeks of freedom left!) I will be working on a new game. It's not as much a blatant ripoff as my current portfolio, but that's not to say it hasn't been done before.
It will be my most technically sophisticated game (including things that were at the pinnacle of gaming years ago, like layered level graphics). I'm trying to make it not just a game, but the basis for a somewhat flexible game engine which I can build further games on.

It will be mostly a single player game (keyboard/mouse controls don't lend well to two players on one computer, but the alternatives for the same game are less flexible and involve either an eight or twelve button configuration. I'm not familiar with either the gamepad or network functions in Blitz Basic so support for them would come later, if at all).

It's still in planning stages so I don't have anything to show you (and I haven't registered it on Sourceforge yet, so you can't gather anything from that, smart alecs).
Of course, since it's not registered on SF yet if someone would provide me hosting I could release it under a more restrictive license (which is what I always wanted to do, but SF offers great free hosting).
Of coure, being the shrewd but rather desperate businessman I am, if anyone wanted to sell it they're more than welcome to talk to me.

Also in the pipeline but not expected anytime soon is: I have been trying to learn enough about C++ to make my rather basic games in it. If I ever feel up to it, my first such project would be porting War Pong to C++. The obvious advantage is cross-platform compatibility (including you Mac users who have been left out... the SF compile farm has some Macs).
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised I actually got something done so close to the last release, but I just uploaded War Pong 0.10. This version has a feature I've wanted to include for a while: layered graphics. Basically it's three new lines of code and a new skin to take advantage of it, called Alley.

The newspaper and stand at the bottom are in front of everything else, so you can't see what's below them.
All these in-jokes tickle my funny bone, so that's why I'm including them.
As with every single update, get it from http://warpong.sourceforge.net.
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Weeble
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konedima wrote:
I have been trying to learn enough about C++ to make my rather basic games in it. If I ever feel up to it, my first such project would be porting War Pong to C++. The obvious advantage is cross-platform compatibility (including you Mac users who have been left out... the SF compile farm has some Macs).

*Giggle*

Seriously, C++ for cross-platform compatibility? You'll certainly find a C++ compiler on almost every platform, but beyond that, you're kind of on your own. Sad Unless you plan only to make text adventures, of course. Wink
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Agrajag



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 342



PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While C++ itself has compilers for different systems, the commands used to draw things on the screen and interact with the user are very different. The only C++ program that will be fully compatible with multiple OS's is a CLI one (command line interface).
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weeble wrote:
konedima wrote:
I have been trying to learn enough about C++ to make my rather basic games in it. If I ever feel up to it, my first such project would be porting War Pong to C++. The obvious advantage is cross-platform compatibility (including you Mac users who have been left out... the SF compile farm has some Macs).

*Giggle*

Seriously, C++ for cross-platform compatibility? You'll certainly find a C++ compiler on almost every platform, but beyond that, you're kind of on your own. Sad Unless you plan only to make text adventures, of course. Wink
See? I am very naive (which I said so). To the best of my understanding though, couldn't I use something like Allegro on more than one platform, with little or no changes?

Then again, I could get into text adventures... .

Less to the point... I posted that a few days ago. Why are you only pointing and laughing now?
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SethP



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Connecticut, USA



PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

konedima wrote:
See? I am very naive (which I said so). To the best of my understanding though, couldn't I use something like Allegro on more than one platform, with little or no changes?

Then again, I could get into text adventures... .

Less to the point... I posted that a few days ago. Why are you only pointing and laughing now?


If you're going to try and program games for C++, then using Allegro is definitely your best bet. Having dabbled in C++ for a couple of years now, Allegro is the easiest and fastest way I've found to make games in C++. As for cross-platform compatibility, that I don't know. Supposedly it's one of the major goals of their project, but having never tried to compile the same code on more than one system I can't really say anything on the subject.

Anyhow, a good way to get started if you're interested in programming with Allegro is:
http://www.cppgameprogramming.com/cgi/nav.cgi?page=index

I already knew the fundamentals of C++ when I came across the site, so I don't know how good their early tutorials are, but the Allegro ones are very good.

Anyway, if you run into any problems, I'd be more than happy to share whatever meager experience I have. Best of luck, I can't wait to see what you manage to come up with; the best I ever did was make the version of Pong you learn how to program in the tutorial play itself.
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I should point out that version 0.10 is a significantly larger download than the last version (it's a bit over 1.1mb, which isn't much generally these days, but is a big jump compared to last version's 636kb size). The light version, however, is only 463 bytes larger than last version, so it's now much lighter comparatively (although the skin it includes was only updated enough to make it work, it doesn't look any different).

I hate how some of these skins really don't want to compress well.

Blitz supports loading other image formats, but they probably wouldn't decrease the download size much, because (uncompressed) bitmaps compress really well, while already compressed images can be lossy (depending on the format) but won't compress well. It's not like I've tested, but I'm guessing it would end up about even.

Talking about updating skins, I'm toying around with the idea of within the code disabling features that the current skin doesn't support. I just can't figure out how to do it. Since many forum members here have some experience programming, I'll tell you two ideas, and you can tell me which works better (or suggest your own):
Idea 1: Use ifs everywhere to see if it should use some features (having set a variable of the version the skin supports earlier). This of course slows everything down with constant condition checking.
Idea 2: Maintain entirely separate programs within the program, a different one for each version (and one is loaded as necessary). This is probably a much stupider idea because it adds far too much unnecessary code to sift through and maintain, and makes the end result much larger than it should be (when I think about it while writing it down, I'm questioning myself as to why I'm even suggesting it at all).

SethP wrote:
Anyway, if you run into any problems, I'd be more than happy to share whatever meager experience I have. Best of luck, I can't wait to see what you manage to come up with; the best I ever did was make the version of Pong you learn how to program in the tutorial play itself.
Thanks for your offer, but you don't have any contact details listed. Can you email me at dkcaaa@gmail.com so I can get your address in case I need it?
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I'm guessing that some of you care, I'd just like to make it known that I've been doing the tutorials SethP recommended (thanks for the link) and while I'm nowhere near making a version of War Pong in C++, I'm getting close (closer, anyway).

When (I'm not considering if a possibility) I finally have a proper version ready, it would be nice to have compiled versions for the other major platforms (as in the ones that I can't work on, Linux and Mac), since I'm sure many average users can't compile the source code on their own. I could compile a Linux version, however if someone else did that it would save me time that I could be working.

As such, I'm calling for volunteers who will port each version for me and release it on Sourceforge. It won't be done for ages, so it's not like you're in a hurry, but if anyone would like to help, please speak up.
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Weeble
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Constant condition checking" shouldn't really be that expensive. You've said that the value you're checking against is precomputed, so that's really a trivial operation. This would probably only become a problem if you were doing the test for every pixel on the screen, or something like that. In general, don't worry too much about performance until you know it's a problem.

While I wish you the best of luck, I think you may find it hard to obtain volunteers to port your code. You will probably find it very educational to attempt yourself, though. I can't remember if you have a Linux install. If not, you might consider creating a Knoppix CD, since you can boot off this and use Linux without actually creating a partition and installing it on your hard-drive.

And going back a bit... I often don't have the time or inclination to reply to something the first time I read it, and I may forget to come back to it entirely until a new post reminds me about it. (This is not an excuse to deliberately thread-bump. Razz )
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weeble wrote:
While I wish you the best of luck, I think you may find it hard to obtain volunteers to port your code. You will probably find it very educational to attempt yourself, though. I can't remember if you have a Linux install. If not, you might consider creating a Knoppix CD, since you can boot off this and use Linux without actually creating a partition and installing it on your hard-drive.
I have Fedora installed, but I never use it. Unfortunately, this would give me an excuse Smile. As I said earlier, I could do it, but since I'm not familiar with all the intricacies of Linux, it could be hard, depending on any changes I have to make.
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SethP



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konedima wrote:
SethP wrote:
Anyway, if you run into any problems, I'd be more than happy to share whatever meager experience I have. Best of luck, I can't wait to see what you manage to come up with; the best I ever did was make the version of Pong you learn how to program in the tutorial play itself.
Thanks for your offer, but you don't have any contact details listed. Can you email me at <email censored to thwart the spambots> so I can get your address in case I need it?


Well, I feel smart. I forget exactly why I created this account, but I think I intended it to only be used once in the support forums or sommat. In any event, I've updated my profile to show my email, so feel free to drop me a line.

About disabling unsupported features, I think you should try option A. As Weeble mentioned, it shouldn't work out to be too much of a performance hit. If that doesn't work for some reason, you might try creating/loading a stock "blank" bitmap (one that is made up entirely of transparent pixels*) for each feature the skin doesn't support.

*I don't know how far you've gotten in the tutorials I linked you, but according to one of the Allegro ones, the RGB value for the transparent "color" is 255, 0, 255 (in 16 bits and up, if you're using 8 bit color it's 0, 0, 0).

EDIT -- konedima posted again while I was typing the above, so in order to avoid a double post I'm appending my reply here:

konedima wrote:
As I said earlier, I could do it, but since I'm not familiar with all the intricacies of Linux, it could be hard, depending on any changes I have to make.


The point of using something like Allegro is that you don't have to know the intricacies of any platform that you're programming for. The worst case scenario is that one of the Allegro functions that you use does something different under Linux than Windows. In that event, you have to build a workaround using your knowledge of the tools available to you in Allegro, not necessarily the ones available to you in Linux.

I'm afraid I can't help you with how to actually compile a complex program under Linux. The furthest I've gotten is to install GCC (using a package manager, so it was really easy) and then type
Code:
g++ HelloWorld.cpp -o HelloWorld
at the command line. I haven't even tried multi-file programs yet (the word "Makefile" sends a cold shiver down my spine).
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SethP wrote:
I've updated my profile to show my email, so feel free to drop me a line.
Your profile page isn't showing your address. Is "Always show my e-mail address" set to yes in the preferences section? I probably shouldn't have posted my address for the spambots to get but people can always contact me via the contact page on my Sourceforge user profile (http://sourceforge.net/users/konedima).
SethP wrote:
About disabling unsupported features, I think you should try option A. As Weeble mentioned, it shouldn't work out to be too much of a performance hit. If that doesn't work for some reason, you might try creating/loading a stock "blank" bitmap (one that is made up entirely of transparent pixels*) for each feature the skin doesn't support.
I'll probably do that for the C++ version (thanks to everyone who reaffirmed my opinion of it as the correct choice) but it's a bit late for the BB version because unless I find a major problem with it I won't update it.
SethP wrote:
I don't know how far you've gotten in the tutorials I linked you, but according to one of the Allegro ones, the RGB value for the transparent "color" is 255, 0, 255 (in 16 bits and up, if you're using 8 bit color it's 0, 0, 0).
Not that far, but since War Pong uses 16 bit colour I'll have to update the graphics because the default transparent colour in BB is black (0,0,0) with I rather stupidly didn't change.
SethP wrote:
I'm afraid I can't help you with how to actually compile a complex program under Linux. The furthest I've gotten is to install GCC (using a package manager, so it was really easy) and then type
Code:
g++ HelloWorld.cpp -o HelloWorld

at the command line. I haven't even tried multi-file programs yet (the word "Makefile" sends a cold shiver down my spine.
You're one up on me in that respect. Maybe I should dig around on my Fedora DVD for some nice programming tools (or at least one that can make a nice makefile).
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