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zakueins



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One game that a lot of people forget is the classic Interplay game MAX...it's more of a turn-based game, but I like it because it has some pretty robust strategy elements, too. And, I think it did have a RTS-esque function to it....the sequel did, I know that much.
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Harabek



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 94
Location: Arkansas, yes we have computers.



PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How will Battlescape compare to some of the games dicussed here? I mean flow and difficulty and such.
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tricky question to answer, but it should hopefully feel very different, which i'm sure will upset some people Wink

The idea is to evolve the ideal army/strategy/tactics combination over many battles, sometimes using most of your units sometimes only an elite core. Each battle presents (hopefully) different challenges by making restrictions on unit choices and overall goals keyed to the mission. The mission is very important, different mission types prevent the player homing in on one army selection/tactic/strategy and keep people searching for the elusive ideal mix of units. Experience means a lot, once you have fought all the different mission types you will know what units are killer in specific situations or weak in others.

There are quite a few different table top battle games that have worked this way and I suppose the most famous is Magic:the gathering. I've never seen it done in an RTS though, RTS's seem to pursue the research->build->die->repeat formula, not there is anything wrong with that far from it infact.

In Magic each player maintains a reserve of cards and fighting units are drawn from this reserve to fight a battle. Battles often have different limits or goals and great skill can be required to choose the combinations of cards that work with any chosen strategy. Battles are usually over fairly quickly.

In Warhammer:40k a players reserve is proportional to how much money he has to buy figures and how much time he has to paint them Smile The result is just the same though, you are never going to meet the exact same force twice and each player must work with the choices he has made to get the best from it. Battles are usually over fairly quickly.
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Harabek



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 94
Location: Arkansas, yes we have computers.



PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see. Having played Magic I know what you're talking about. Sometimes y big green creatures overran the other player and sometimes i couldn't even play them. But anyway, sounds fun. I like the orginal ideas.
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully we would avoid too much of that. I ended up playing Magic quite regularly against a couple of people who rarely changed their strategy (they liked their dark magic and goblin cards and couldn't afford new ones) and I ended up owning them to the point they refused to play me. Being a competitive s.o.b I did some research and learned that there was a specific white deck that had unique anti-magic capabilities exactly in opposition to the cards my opponents fielded. I then found a shop that instead of selling random booster packs it had individual cards available at a slightly higher price. $75 later I had a card selection and strategy that they could not be beaten.

You see, it's people like me that ruin multiplayer games, mmoprg's, etc Sad why can't people just play nice ?
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Harabek



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 94
Location: Arkansas, yes we have computers.



PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's true but its the competevtivness that makes it fun in the first place. Like anything, its all about the balance. Judging by Starscape, you guys are good at that.
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Dark Rain



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can see where you're coming from Poo Bear. I happen to be very competitive too, especially at TA, I got very good at it at some point and it just wasn't fun anymore with 90% of the players out there. If you've never been active in multiplayer it's not going to ring a bell but at my best, I could win the odd games vs BlackFlag in 1v1. Heh, those were the days, nothing more important in life than getting better at TA ^_^.

Well, that aside, if you feel the old models are too low res, you should try TA:Evolva. It's better models, with new build pictures. The best part is that it's compatible in multiplayer with people who don't have it installed.
http://www.planetannihilation.com/taan/pages/evolva/evolva.htm



The larger mini map and chat buffer mod if quite nice too :
http://wormhole.tauniverse.com/downloads/battleroom_OTA.zip

(I did the larger mini map hack, so I guess it's self promotion Razz)

On another note, hacking out TA and TA:K file formats was pretty fun. I mostly did TA:K file format reverse engineering. We reverse engineered ALL the file formats just to realise we did it all for nothing. We couldn't implement a second resource to port TA to the TA:K engine ( long story ).

My biggest contributions were tools for TA editing tho, most notably the 3d model importer : http://visualta.tauniverse.com/HTML/Utilities.htm

Anyway, I'm rambling about old days I guess ^_^. Just in case it wasn't clear, my vote goes to Total Annihilation as best RTS of all times Smile.
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VonBraun



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 42



PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres an even better TA game for unreal tournament 2004, Its called Unreal Annihillation, Can't remember the website though, But its a great mod, and the best part is you can actually posses units, Imagine, You leading a massive force of peewees, flashes, hammers and jethroes at a well defended Core base as the commander, Complete carnage.
I vote for TA
But i withdraw that vote if someone in the forums mentions Total anninilation: the final frontier, Which is the best mod i have ever played, but is unfortanatly no longer available, as the site went down, along with everything on it. Sad.
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Dark Rain



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TA:FF relocated to tadesigners quite a while ago :
http://www.tadesigners.com/users/savant/

Enjoy ^_^.

Oh yeah and Unreal Annihilation is pretty cool indeed. I forgot to mention it I guess. A lot of people provided screenshots from Spring too, an RTS engine made from the ground up by TA fans. It runs TA models and scripts out of the box : http://taspring.clan-sy.com/
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jollyreaper



Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 181



PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poo Bear wrote:
Hopefully we would avoid too much of that. I ended up playing Magic quite regularly against a couple of people who rarely changed their strategy (they liked their dark magic and goblin cards and couldn't afford new ones) and I ended up owning them to the point they refused to play me. Being a competitive s.o.b I did some research and learned that there was a specific white deck that had unique anti-magic capabilities exactly in opposition to the cards my opponents fielded. I then found a shop that instead of selling random booster packs it had individual cards available at a slightly higher price. $75 later I had a card selection and strategy that they could not be beaten.

You see, it's people like me that ruin multiplayer games, mmoprg's, etc Sad why can't people just play nice ?


That's the heart of the play balance trick. You found the way to beat their combo. Now they're free to invent a new combo and you'll have to devise a new strategy. With a poorly designed game, you'll figure out the magic combo in 10 minutes and beat them every time. It's like the Cyrax twink move in Mortal Kombat where you used a bomb followed by a kick to push your opponent into a corner and then you just kept twinking them like that until they died. It was cheap and unstoppable.

If you can manage that kind of balance in Battlescape I'll applaud you. I just think it's going to be tough to achieve.
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VonBraun



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 42



PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOOORAY!!!!!
FINALLY I CAN PLAY IT AGAIN!
DAMN THE VIRUSES I ACCIDENTALLY DOWNLOADED THAT FORCED ME TO REFORMAT MY HARD DRIVE!!!!!
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Deraldin



Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 48



PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just chime in here with my favourite RTS game. One that almost no one ever mentions even though IMO it beats the pants off of Starcraft.

Dark Reign. Dark Reign had shredders. How could you not like the Imperium when they had shredders. Very Happy
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zwzsg



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just passing by to say HI! to Dark Rain. Internet is such a small world. Oh well, I could keep on talking about TA but maybe you had enough of it, so I'll say that yes Dark Reign had a few good ideas, I like for instance having all the imperial tanks being hover and the rebels (or whatever their names was) tank mostly being tracked (save that one with the tri rail gun), making for interesting tactics when one side can freely cross river while the other can't. And also the jungle only infantry can walk in, the sand that slow down some units but not other.... well, many games have different kind of terrain affecting units deplacement, but it rarely makes a difference ingame, so don't be afraid to make terrain have a big effect in BattleScape. Oh well I'll go back to my usual TA forums now.
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Poo Bear
Pod Team
Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Sheffield, UK



PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the terrain stuff in Dark Reign was cool, I've already added some similar stuff to Battlescape, various modifiers. The ultimate example being infantry squads that have certain equipment upgrades and training modifiers that let them become invisible when in wooded areas and not moving. How that works out in play testing remains to be seen, hopefully it doesn't give them too great an advantage Smile
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Harabek



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 94
Location: Arkansas, yes we have computers.



PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will infantry be able to dig in? You know, fox holes, trenches, and such.
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