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air units
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:36 pm    Post subject: air units Reply with quote

in sevral threads you have mentioned battlescape will have air units but evryoine would rather beag for underground units or talk about mechs but i like ait units and would like to play an air calvary (air and infintry) devision so what cind of units can i expect

a good segstion is the helacopters form the arnold swartsnagor movie the 9th day thay wer like high tech choppers that had roter blades that locked in a side position and became wings for faster flight over long distences thay would be a cool unit for battlescape
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of VTOL jets like the Harrier, a normal jet fighter but with the ability to land and take off vertically. The idea being they cannot stop without landing, makes them feel more like planes than the usual floating hover tanks and keeps them vulnerable. The downside to that implementation is they can be difficult to control as it is hard to select something that wont stop. Although if you're sensible you would just assign them to a function key at the start of the game I suppose.
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yah but what about choper jets i want choper jets

and vtol units are easy to control just cklick and thay go thare if you dount give them any orders thay hover or secle
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BluePhoenix



Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 96
Location: Between Georgia and Cuba



PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, maybe not just choppers, though that would be cool, but other air units. I know that when I'm playing starcraft I like to run up with my aerial units blow things up and then run away. Or to use as back up for ground troops because they are faster. Though admitedly, one of the problems with starcraft was that a multifront attack didn't really bother the computer AI much. Maybe a "distraction factor" for the AI?
Anyway, air units would most definately be cool. Choose between super powerful jets like the Tomcat, or fragile, but swift ships like the old Zeroes, or something built like an aerial tank, that you had to balance to make sure you didn't make it weigh so much it flew like a brick.
Perhaps include a special screen for selecting units, choose whether your looking for aerial or ground, then type, then the specific unit.
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Pinstripe



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 8



PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the type of arial units you got would all depend on the scale of the units you create. if you only wanted some sort of troop carrying air units then some light armaments would be nice on that so they would have some combat effectivity given the fact that they would be out of range of normal support due to their transport function, however if u were adding on an entire arial wing then you would need to have fighters, or attack choppers, some form of unarmed transport chopper(a plane wouldn't do because they would need some form of runway to land which takes out the possiblity of insertain behind enemy lines) and a bomber type unit... however if u added in the bomber some purely air to air unit would be a good idea too. of course all thats just my opinion of what a good air squadron would require ><
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icarus
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hay evryboy say hello to my frend
i leared evrything i know from him
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MageKing17



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 9
Location: In front of a computer



PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poo Bear wrote:
I like the idea of VTOL jets like the Harrier, a normal jet fighter but with the ability to land and take off vertically. The idea being they cannot stop without landing, makes them feel more like planes than the usual floating hover tanks and keeps them vulnerable. The downside to that implementation is they can be difficult to control as it is hard to select something that wont stop. Although if you're sensible you would just assign them to a function key at the start of the game I suppose.

Actually, I think that Total Annihilation handles VTOL very well. You click on your VTOL unit and tell it where to go or what to attack. It then takes off (which has a short, not too short, but short enough delay) and flies to it's target location. If it was told to attack it makes it's attack run then flies back for more if that wasn't enough. Otherwise it just lands where it is. Landing takes the same amount of time as taking off, so you don't have to wait for a long time to get it to go anywhere. Also, landing can be cancelled halfway by giving it a new target. If the terrain is too bumpy too land, it moves to the nearest suitable landing spot and sets down.
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jollyreaper



Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 181



PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

However they're implimented, they have to be intuitive and non-aggrivating. TA was probably the best I've seen but were still annoying. Bombers would hover over heavily-defended enemy bases while turning. Brawlers and other VTOL-types would be immensely vulnerable while hovering in attack mode. Expensive units turned into scrap metal very quickly.

I saw a little bit of Ground Control and the only thing I really liked was how zoomie the planes were. What might be a workable solution is to not have the planes be selectable units so much as something that you control via an air support interface. You get x-many planes, you decide when to call in airstrikes, use CAP, etc. That would be if the planes were actually under your chain of command. Alternatively, those planes could simply fly in as part of support from a different command.

The way the Army works, they have non-combat fixed wing aircraft and combat rotary wing aircraft (helicopters). An Army general would be able to direct his choppers around and have them follow requests from forward air controllers, engaged commanders, or go out on seek and destroy missions. Any Air Force aircraft operating in the area are under a different command's control and he only gets their use by asking pretty please. Air Force tells him what planes are available, forward air controllers can make specific requests for close air support, or the planes will hit specific targets requested by the general, such as hitting bridges, supply dumps, anything that's far behind the front lines. Marines are a bit smarter about all this, they "own" their own air support, from planes to choppers.
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Stormlock



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It occurs to me that the only game I've played with realist 'fast' air units is Dune. While they weren't terribly effective because they took so long to build, they were certainly easy to use.

Essentially, the instant the Ornithopter was built, it zoomed off at an ungodly speed away from your base and started bombing things. It was completely AI controlled, and didn't even scout for you (except for the auto revealing of any unit that fires at it). Basically it would do a loop over whatever target it picked (usually an anti air turret Crying or Very sad ) and fire each time it passed. It did decentish damage (about the same as a heavy tank) and attacked often, but tended to die before you built a second, since it died after 2 hits from a rocket, and only had about 95% evasion rate (only 95%, heh.) If you built 5 airports and cranked out 5 planes at once, they could actually starting casuing serious problems. Unfortunately, that required pretty much all the resources on the whole map, and as such was also unfeasible.

My idea is to have your airfoce automatically stored somewhere (offscreen preferably) on an airbase. While in the base they reload, refuel, and get repaired. Instead of commanding the planes directly, you simply select the airbase and issue a command, to patrol and area, bomb an area, scout, specific target kills, etc. the planes do whatever you order at an unholy speed that dodges even the majority of missles, and don't do stupid things like hover over an enemy base, because it takes them longer to stop and turn than it does to fly across the base 5 times over. Individually selecting the planes never occurs, you simply treat the airbase as the unit, and issue all commands directly through it.

One last thought: given the relative speeds of aircraft and tanks today, and the fact the Battlescape is futuristic, I hope the planes make the planes in TA look like snails, preferably with atmosphiric friction creating a big meteor like effect around them as they streak through a battle and affect it while you blink.
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icarus
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats not what i have in mind you ideas make it imposable to have an air calvary (infintry transported by hulacoptors or VTOL planes like the us did in veitnam)

the last thing i want is air saport

i think a good idea for a unit would be a hulacopter that can lock its wings in a horazontal postion and use them as wings for level flight (a good example of this is the arnold swartsanager movie "the 9th day") thare could be two versions of this a trnasport which could cary 10 men and a gunship whith miniguns and antitank rockets Twisted Evil

anouther idea is a big chopper whith 3 rotor blades and a triangleer frame that can cary small veacles like jeeps and maby the crebris tank
it would look like this from top vew


Last edited by icarus on Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Weeble
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

icarus wrote:
hulacopter

ShockedExclamation

Dear Moonpod,
I will not buy this game unless you include this unit. I must have hula-hulacopters swirling through the air in grass skirts, dispensing justice in the form of plastic hoops. I will not settle for less.
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icarus
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROFL*
yah how bout it a infintry unit gets hit by a hula hoop he will coumpulsavly pick it up and start to hula and than he will start to hula verry fast untill he exploads Twisted Evil



*Roals On Floor Laughing (incase you diddint know) Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it! We should start a petition.
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jollyreaper



Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 181



PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hulacopter. Sweet Waffle-Eating Jesus.
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icarus
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but how would it atack veacles
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