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Just an idea...[funny about that]
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Sorrow



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 146
Location: Australia



PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:18 pm    Post subject: Just an idea...[funny about that] Reply with quote

I don't know if any of you have watched an Anime series called "Gasaraki", in this anime it featured Mechs but with an interesting spin, rather then just been mechenical machines they where synthetic mussle systems functioning more like Humans then slow moving unmenuverable robots, which is a good change Smile
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icarus
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Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a relistic mech would use a motive system simaler to mussles
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Fost
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3734



PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Just an idea...[funny about that] Reply with quote

Sorrow wrote:
I don't know if any of you have watched an Anime series called "Gasaraki", in this anime it featured Mechs but with an interesting spin, rather then just been mechenical machines they where synthetic mussle systems functioning more like Humans then slow moving unmenuverable robots, which is a good change Smile


I really love Yutaka Izubuchi's designs for Gasaraki. As for the series, I only got half way though and kind of gave up on it a bit, it seemed to really mess up the action:politics ratio. I know some people like that, but in Gasaraki it just seemed they were finding excuses not to do any of the more expensive animation Smile

Could just be me though - I have the attention span of a gnat Very Happy

The synthetic muscle bundles idea is a cool one, isn't that also how Space Marine power armour works in Warhammer 40k?

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Stormlock



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synthetic as in cloned flesh (like an Eva) or synthetic as in non organic material that has the properties of the former? Either way, it would be interesting to have something like this, perhaps better speed with a trade-off of defense?

I've always found giant mecha interesting. Although I wish they'd put a little more work into giving explanations for the details. Every time I see a mech with a pilot accelerate/deccelerate at 100+ G's I cringe. Although it does look much cooler than slower mechs.

Oh! Will the mechs be able to melee anything? I've always found that to be the primary advantage a humanoid mech has. Tanks are a lot more efficient at being mobile guns than humanoids are, thats why we build them. But tanks can't punch other tanks. Razz Maybe make it an option if you build a mech and don;t put any weapons on the template?
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Fost
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormlock wrote:
Although I wish they'd put a little more work into giving explanations for the details.

I totally agree, I often end up moving parts around on my models because I start thinking things like: 'how would a man get in there?', 'that can't move like that'. Very Happy You do notice things moving too fast - particularly in recent all cg films, and it just looks wrong.

Stormlock wrote:
Oh! Will the mechs be able to melee anything?

From a purely code point of view, that should be ok (it's just knocking stats off units in differnt ways). We've actually been talking about this a lot over tha past few days - the real problem is the animation - how do you make sure the mech attacks different things and still looks ok? Melle vs mechs will look different to melee Vs tanks or even people. This then becomes a big issue where lots of code goes in to support differnt attack styles.

What we are initially going to do, is get a Talos armed with a melee weapon working against other mechs, and then build up from there. I'm pretty sure we'll at least get Talos Vs Mech and Vs Tanks in there.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

give an opion for the talos to have a mono edge* carbon fiber shortsword
that can cut thro vertuly anything and is stronger than dimond


*mono edge means the edge of the blade is only one molecle thick so it can cut thro vertuly anything
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Stormlock



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of meleeing ground troops, you could simply have it walk over them, with damage/random instadeath. Similiar to tanks running over troops in games like Dune and Comand and Conquer. Depending on the size difference, you could even implement that for mechs walking over small vehicles.
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Darth Dallas



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 411



PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crushing people and other things is always a fun thought, but I also wonder under what circumstances might something that big that walks, that whatever it stomps on risks damaging it.

I like the thought that maybe there ought to be risks to that sort of action. I mean sure, you may completely destroy a fixed artillery piece, even a tank to cripple it. But here's a question (perhaps for those geared for adults out there with kids to get where I'm coming from), how many times have you stepped on something thinking "Oh, it might hurt a bit but what the heck..." and wind up tripping over that roller skate and then fall down the stairs Jerry Lewis style?

Plus who knows. They may want their game to do well in France, and we know Jerry Lewis' poplularity in that country Smile So how about looking into some comical mishaps of that fancy mech taking a tumble down a mountain Very Happy
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Bobacles



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine that those heavy mechs would have trouble in terrain that other units wouldn't. Not every bridge would be able to handle such heavy battle units. It's likely that if one were to step to harshly, they could collapse the bridge. Alternately, they could just jump down the chasm, and climb up the other side without too much trouble.

If there's a heavy rain, the mud would get soft. Those robots are big, and have alot of weight on a relatively small foot area. It's possible that the foot actuators could get stuck in the muddy terrain. But I guess that's true of everyone in the mud.

And steep hills? If a hill can barely handle the weight of a human trooper, it probably can't handle the weight of giant robots roaming around. Unless they dug their claws into the hill, I guess. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yah a mech should have large feet to spread the weight

a tank has the same ground pressure as a man cause its weight is spread around on the tracks
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Stormlock



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mud wouldn't do anything to a mech that large. The mud would only be 1-2 feet deep anyways. It's like walking around in a puddle. In a swamp it might sink far enough for that to be an issue, but swamps do that to pretty much everything anyways. The real issue is the weight/area ratio on the feet. And they don't need to be snow shoes to keep from sinking into anything a human wouldn't. Normal sized feet should be fine. And for hills, it could traverse them about as well as a Hummer probably. Not quite as well as a human, but far better than a tank.

Bridges vs. weight could be a problem, unless the bridges are made out of futuristic alloys that can hold insane amounts of weight.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no to keep coasts down briges are made of steel and concrete but a mech can wade anywhay and mechs usuly whegh less than a tank
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Degraine



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
I totally agree, I often end up moving parts around on my models because I start thinking things like: 'how would a man get in there?', 'that can't move like that'. Very Happy You do notice things moving too fast - particularly in recent all cg films, and it just looks wrong.


I think I've figured out one reason why we can still pick out the CG these days. Take a look at Mifune powering up his mech in Matrix Revolutions. Why is this so obvious? Because Mifune's body doesn't react to the forces being put on it. He doesn't press down in his seat or get jerked around as the mech stands up. Same thing with Anakin riding one of those alien bovines in Attack of the Clones. We can instinctively pick out things like that that just aren't reacting like they 'should' if they were real.


Fost wrote:
The synthetic muscle bundles idea is a cool one, isn't that also how Space Marine power armour works in Warhammer 40k?


I'd like to point out that it's also used in Mechwarrior, where 'myomer bundles' - essentially artificial muscles - are used to achieve motion, rather than servos. At least there's a precedent, I suppose.

To blatantly steal from Mechwarrior, there's an idea for an upgrade option in the Talos: myomer boosters that supercharge the fibres, increasing the mech's landspeed, and possibly melee damage.
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jollyreaper



Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 181



PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Just an idea...[funny about that] Reply with quote

Sorrow wrote:
I don't know if any of you have watched an Anime series called "Gasaraki", in this anime it featured Mechs but with an interesting spin, rather then just been mechenical machines they where synthetic mussle systems functioning more like Humans then slow moving unmenuverable robots, which is a good change Smile


I think every mech since the 80's has been designed with artificial muscles in mind, possibly with a hydraulic boost to add extra power in certain situations. Battlemechs from Battletech use myomar muscles that contract when electirfied, just like real muscles. Peizoelectric materials in existence today can simulate that effect.

Gasaraki's mecha have been described by some as "the mecha Israel would be using if they did away with their tanks." I love the realistic feel of the designs, very practical and convincing. The antithesis of, say, a Gundam. Smile
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jollyreaper



Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 181



PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

icarus wrote:
yah a mech should have large feet to spread the weight

a tank has the same ground pressure as a man cause its weight is spread around on the tracks


Dude, you spelled every word correctly here. What happened?
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