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Shiny Happy Gamers/Depressed Fost
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Fost
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Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3734



PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Shiny Happy Gamers/Depressed Fost Reply with quote

Following on from, "what portals want" we have:

Making Your Game Shine

I have to say, that this is all valid advice, and I'm not knocking it or Joe who is trying to be very helpful. However, I'm still utterly depressed that the world has to operate this way:

Quote:
"If I had to pick between having a game with a great demo, but a full version that wasnít good and a good game with a bad demo, Iíd take the good demo every time."
I'd rather waste x man hours making the game people have bought good, than having to trick them into buying it in the first place Crying or Very sad

Quote:
People donít want text
So true, so sad... He says stories are good, but only if told in picture form. Are we really only capable of ingesting nursery level storytelling? Yup, though games are a visual medium so it makes sense.

Quote:
How To Score
Rather than make clever games, we will spend all our time pandering to your ego. Obviously we have gone wrong with Mr. Robot and we need to add a couple of 00000's to the score because that will TRANSFORM the experience.

This is all so dumb, and depressing because it's true. We make terrible demos at Moonpod - in Starscape, you get the pea shooter ship for the demo, and in Mr. Robot, we spend a lot of the demo teaching you ghost hack and so on (so it's text heavy).

Crying or Very sad
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Sorrow



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 146
Location: Australia



PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i find these quotes depressive aswell fost Sad
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tetsuomaki



Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Sheffield



PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I do as well.
I think that the demo for Mr. Robot is perfectly balanced to be honest...
kinda makes you want more.

If people didn't like too much text, I really think that Phoenix Wright would not be so popular. And that's a great game.

I haven't read that article, and I don't intend to... it's usefulness is very questionable! Laughing
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Weeble
Starscape Jedi
Starscape Jedi


Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1143
Location: Glasgow, Scotland



PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about anybody else, but on the rare occasions I've looked for games to play/buy at portals, I have found myself approaching them in a very different sort of way from games recommended by friends or from known developers. You quickly become accustomed to the fact that you're wading through ****, and don't stop to give anything the benefit of the doubt. You just want to get out of the ****. As somebody who wants to be entertained, I agree that a good demo on a **** game is better than a **** demo on a good game. Because I will never ever know about the good game. At least with the other I enjoyed the demo, even if I did get ripped off. There is no way that I'm going to give the **** demo game a second glance when I know that the portal can't be relied upon to present me anything resembling a choice selection of quality games.
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SethP



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Connecticut, USA



PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my favorite line was:

Quote:
The gun slinging gangster kid is not the right character for my cute bakery game.


Personally, I find 'out there' plotlines like the above much more appealing than Joe's other examples of Diner Dash et al. I own a copy of Diner Dash for my phone, but that's because it's a quick game on a very portable device, which makes it perfect for those 5-10 minute intervals when I'm waiting for a class to start. In games like that, the story line is really tangential.

However, a gun slinging gangster kid in a bakery shop just has so much more potential. Flo (from Diner Dash) can have two things happen to her: She can succeed, or her business can fail. Mr. Gun Slinger, on the other hand, actually has a vibrant backstory (at least compared to Flo). Especially important, his backstory can change the course of the game. Maybe he starts off just baking bread, but because of pressure from his gang mates, he starts making 'special' cakes with weapons and bags of drugs to make for easier smuggling.

Meh, I guess I'm just angry that most games don't have interesting stories, and the stories that could become interesting are shut down from the get go.
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Fost
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Pod Team


Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we make a casual game, then I think it will have to be Gunslinger Bakery.

Sounds like the name a Japanese game would have!

I wonder what you could do in it?
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Konedima
Grammar Police
Grammar Police


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1068
Location: Sydney, Land of Censorship



PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
If we make a casual game, then I think it will have to be Gunslinger Bakery.

Sounds like the name a Japanese game would have!

I wonder what you could do in it?
The bread, sick of being cooked and eaten, has decided to fight back.

You start at the front of the store, where all the already cooked goods sit.

You must fight through them, making your way to the back of the bakery.

The enemies get tougher and tougher, as they become dough reaching various stages of cooking.

The final fight is three against one: you versus giant water, flour, and yeast.

I think those ideas would make a good on-rails shooter (I'm not sure how good they'd be for a casual game though).
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icarus
Troll
Troll


Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Location: Olympia Washington



PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:34 am    Post subject: Re: Shiny Happy Gamers/Depressed Fost Reply with quote

Fost wrote:
Quote:
People donít want text
So true, so sad... He says stories are good, but only if told in picture form. Are we really only capable of ingesting nursery level storytelling? Yup, though games are a visual medium so it makes sense.


Well most of this article has made me want to kill something but, I actually agree with that one.

Text has no place in games. Unless your character is reading a newspaper, I want Voice acting. And none of this stupid "only Impotent NPCs can talk" I want you to go on the street and hire random people to voice every last townsperson. I like words and all but if I want to reed I will get a book.
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Agrajag



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 342



PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm the exact opposite. I usually mute my games while playing them, and always turn on the subtitle option whenever a game has voice acting. I'd much rather read text, although of course the best solution is to have both so everyone is happy.

Also keep in mind that the reason every last townsperson isn't voice is partly a size constraint. Text takes up a lot less space on the disc, so the less voice acting they more space they have for content and graphics (although with Blu-Ray this stops being a problem).
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Magnulus



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Bergen, Norway



PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can have QUITE a few hours of speech on a single DVD as well.
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SethP



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Connecticut, USA



PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Shiny Happy Gamers/Depressed Fost Reply with quote

icarus wrote:
Text has no place in games. Unless your character is reading a newspaper, I want Voice acting. And none of this stupid "only Impotent NPCs can talk" I want you to go on the street and hire random people to voice every last townsperson. I like words and all but if I want to reed I will get a book.


Having played games that did hired random people off the street to voice the main characters, I'm gonna have to go with a big NOOOOOOOO on that one. If the voice actors in a game arn't all proffessional quality, it's gonna break the immersion. Trust me on this one: anything longer than a single word random people off the street will not be able to do correctly.

In principle I agree that voice + subtitles are the best solution, but on the other hand I can understand how the cost of such a project might be prohibitive. And reading text is just so much better than listening to horrible acting. Soooooo much better...
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Konedima
Grammar Police
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 1068
Location: Sydney, Land of Censorship



PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnulus wrote:
You can have QUITE a few hours of speech on a single DVD as well.
Viva la Oblivion!

As for whether having ****** actors is better than having no actors, I'm in the "no actors" camp. You don't want to pull me off the street and voice a random character. Seriously. (I just heard myself on tape for the first time today).

What I AM good at though, is stupid/cartoony voices. My overconfidence in my (perhaps lack of) abilities makes me want to make a cartoony game just so I can voice it. It's just a shame a can't draw.
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Sorrow



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 146
Location: Australia



PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha Kone if i ever make a cartoony game your more then welcome to come do some voices for me :p
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Slyh



Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany



PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnulus wrote:
You can have QUITE a few hours of speech on a single DVD as well.

Yup. The complete speech pack (also including all sound effects and music) of Sam&Max needs as few as 59MB of disc space. And there is a lot of spoken text in this game. (Of course the sound is compressed, using Ogg Vorbis IIRC).
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Lostlogic



Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 19
Location: United States



PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if the game is compelling enough people will put up with the text. Oblivion is a perfect example of this. I read every line and listened to every voice. Other games though I just skip through the text because it's generally not worth reading in the first place.
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