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Port Starscape to the Gamecube???
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Juggy



Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poo Bear wrote:
Sadly Fost's comments are probably going to apply to console development too, if Sony are anything to go by. We have emailed Sony Europe and Sony America asking for development kit prices and duplication costs. They don't even have the decency to reply most of the time (and yes we did have the right email address), on the one occasion they do reply it is simply to make a sarcastic comment about how expensive it will all be (i.e too much for the likes of us). I'm disgusted by the whole thing.

Thank god for the Internet and direct sales.


True thanks for the Internet for its wealth of knowledge and direct contact to the user. Anyway how much would it be for a Sony dev kit and duplication cost, would it be in the range of 10,000 for the dev kit and some amount for duplication cost..

Well Sony is really big and recently they released their forecast and its not been so good; a 25 per cent drop in its quaterly profits the cause a drop in hardware sales. Also a decline operating profits of around 91 per cent because the focus of R&D costs for next gen console. Crying or Very sad
(Found in the EDGE #131 Rise of the Robots with Optimus Prime on the front cover, pg15)

As you are probably aware that all next gen consoles will have a IBM processor in them, so who's machine will be best wait and see...
Surprised


Juggy
Cool
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Goober
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Pod Team


Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 449
Location: Moonpod Central



PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juggy wrote:
Anyway how much would it be for a Sony dev kit and duplication cost, would it be in the range of 10,000 for the dev kit and some amount for duplication cost.


That's the thing, we don't know. Sony won't even talk to us. We've tried twice to contact them, directly to the departments responsible (UK and US), but they don't even email us back telling us where to go. We just get nothing at all. Presumably if we were making some pathetically weak film tie-in, a sports game, or a 3rd person action adventure they might speak to us.
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think complete silence would have been better than that one reply we got, sarcastically implying it would all be a bit too expensive for the likes of us.

As far as I know a PS2 devkit is indeed about $10k but I didn't hear that from Sony so can't be sure. I'm guessing but I would have thought you would have to have at least 20,000 discs duplicated and it would be in the region of $4-5 a disc. They would have to make it this high because they need to cover retooling the duplication factory, quality control to make sure your game isn't going to crash and their royalty on the game itself.
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Juggy



Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poo Bear wrote:
I think complete silence would have been better than that one reply we got, sarcastically implying it would all be a bit too expensive for the likes of us.

As far as I know a PS2 devkit is indeed about $10k but I didn't hear that from Sony so can't be sure. I'm guessing but I would have thought you would have to have at least 20,000 discs duplicated and it would be in the region of $4-5 a disc. They would have to make it this high because they need to cover retooling the duplication factory, quality control to make sure your game isn't going to crash and their royalty on the game itself.


Have you tried contacting Nintendo UK & Europe, I'm sure they would be forthcoming with their details about dev kits and duplications of the discs (I know discs are proprietary, so no chance of piracy). Also it would beneficial to Nintendo because at the moment they are selling quite a lot of hardware (Gamecube), more than PS2 which is started to stagnate.

The other issue the GC needs more third-party games and 'Starscape' fits well into this cateogory, not only as 2D strategy action game. But as retro format which is uniqe and will sell well on the GC. Smile

Juggy Cool

ps If only I had some money, I would be glad to help and make sure the games you create are released on many platforms.
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CidHighwindFF7



Joined: 31 Aug 2003
Posts: 104
Location: Mt. Savage, Maryland, USA



PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly, I dont think it would go over too well even if you had the dev kit and the money for publication. Its true, most customers DO really buy into fancy graphics and gimmicks.
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Shadowblazer



Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Tormented Space



PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah, if it were possible to get Starscape ported to a Console, I wouldn't want to see it on the Gamecube or the X-Box or anything like that. I can already play it on my TV.

No, my friends, this would be the ultimate port:



Just imagine, Starscape wherever you go! Wink
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Poo Bear
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooh nice, that would indeed be cool, and don't forget Sony's new PSP handheld too. Smile
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Konedima
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadowblazer wrote:
Bah, if it were possible to get Starscape ported to a Console, I wouldn't want to see it on the Gamecube or the X-Box or anything like that. I can already play it on my TV.

No, my friends, this would be the ultimate port:



Just imagine, Starscape wherever you go! Wink

hey, i resent that you're using a gba sp for that pic. i have a gba (not an sp) and it works fine. nice job on creating the pic though Smile
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Doctor Max



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadowblazer wrote:
Bah, if it were possible to get Starscape ported to a Console, I wouldn't want to see it on the Gamecube or the X-Box or anything like that. I can already play it on my TV.

No, my friends, this would be the ultimate port:



Just imagine, Starscape wherever you go! Wink


Hey, Personely i think that that goal is acomplishible..
Quote:
Poo Bear : Shocked


ok..once you ditch the alpha blending..simplify the colours..remove some partical effects..compress the soundtrack you can squeese it onto a GBA cartrage..i mean a PS2 Mem card can hold 8 megs..and starscape is how much again?
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Fire Storm



Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 26
Location: Michigan, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Universe 00356



PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doctor Max wrote:
ok..once you ditch the alpha blending..simplify the colours..remove some partical effects..compress the soundtrack you can squeese it onto a GBA cartrage..i mean a PS2 Mem card can hold 8 megs..and starscape is how much again?


Well, don't forget that there are Gamecube memory cards that are now 128MB, and other memory devices (CF, SD, etc) have cards going up to 1gb. I remember that the largest N64 cart was 32MB (A Zelda?), so a 64MB GBA cart is not that unreasonable.
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Doctor Max



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm..good point Cool

But how the hell do we get nenteindo to pop SS on a GBA..i dont know bout the laws covering it but..i think that poop bear and freinds would have to pay royalties(send a portion of the profits)to nintendio..
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Konedima
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a GBA, GameCube and PS2. Personally I think the best port would be a GC. It just doesn't seem the game that would suit a GBA to me. Nor the PS2, you don't see many games of that style on the PS2. The GameCube however, is a perfect port. You see many games of that sorta-style-thingy on the GC. Well, just my thoughts. No-one probably cares. And although the GameCube discs are tiny (8cm), they can hold 1.5gb of data.
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Doctor Max



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personly i think that the GBA would rock Razz Razz
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Poo Bear
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Joined: 14 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All consoles work the same way, you need a publisher's backing and the permission of the manufacturer. That is why we work on PC, we don't need anybody's permission and we don't need to give anyone a load of upfront cash. Sad, but that is how it is, how I wish it were different.

We have tried contacting Sony as a publisher in our own right, but they wont even speak to us. So there is no way in unless a big publisher really wants to see the game made, our hands are tied.

The process would be;
1. a publisher (one the console manufacturer has heard of and has dealt with) decides it wants to get SS made on whatever console.
2. they contact the manufacturer (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) and get them to agree to sign a contract and dev kits ordered and paid for.
3. we make the game.
4. the publisher pays the console manufacturer to have the game tested, the game wont be allowed out until the manufacturer is happy.
5. we fix the bugs.
6. the publisher pays the console manufacturer to have the game duplicated in large numbers (at least 40,000 copies). The console manufacturer adds in his royalty to this price per disc/cart, this is where they get their money. So it might cost Sony 50p to press a disc, but they will charge the publisher ~$7, this is how they make money.
7. the publisher then pays for boxes, manuals and distribution to the shops. The shops send back any copies that don't sell, which just get dumped in the bargain bin (this is why the whole process is so risky).
8. the publisher pays the shops to put up posters and put the game on a prime position at the front of the shop for a while (or it definitely wont sell). This is very expensive.

So we would need to convince a large publisher they can shift at least 40,000 copies minimum. If you factor in all the publishers costs then they would need to gamble maybe $400,000 to cover marketing, duplication, etc. Can you see why it is so difficult to get a game onto a console now? It is no wonder all you see are safe licensed movie tie-ins and sequels, publishers are taking some serious gambles and have a lot of staff wages to pay.

Oh yes, we only get some money right at the end after everyone has taken their cut, unless we can secure a royalty advance. Even more money the publisher has to gamble up front Smile

If they do sell all 40,000 and that is a big IF, people are very fickle and trends change constantly and unpredictably, often it comes down to timing and luck. Then if the game sold at $35 it generates $1.4million but the shops take 40% minimum straight away (shocking isn't it, that is what happens when a few chains hold a monopoly, sometimes it can even be as high as 70%). So the publisher really gets about $840,000 minus his initial costs which leaves about $440,000 profit. We would expect to get 15% of that which gives us $66,000.

Not much for all that effort really, this is why publishers want to bet on games they think will shift 200,000 units or more. It is only at that scale of selling that anyone makes any real money. This is why only a shocking 5% of all console games you see in a shop are seen as profitable by publishers, the top10 chart games are making money, the rest are losing it.

Ideally we would want to sell the console game directly from this website like our PC software, then there are no publishers or retailers taking a huge bite. Nobody seems to want us to do that though at the minute sadly.
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Darth Dallas



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 411



PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what kinda money your paying out if any for advertising on places like Penny Arcade, but if it weren't for sites like that, many of us I don't think would have found this title out and glommed onto it like we have.

I have a feeling niche marketing is where its at for guys like you, sometimes you pay for it, and other times you might have folks able to host an ad for little or nothing just because of the fan following or word of mouth factor or just cause they dig the game.

And those honorable mentions and polls like Gametunnel's goes a long way too. I noticed Tycho mentioned something of your game too on Monday's Penny Arcade. I'm sure that everyone who's in the know will be watching closely to what Moonpod does next so I'm not too worried about the opinions of publishers who won't talk to you. They're the one's missing the boat as far as I'm concerned.
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