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The Cronicles of the Aegis (a fanfic for your enjoyment)
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SniperJoe3397



Joined: 06 Sep 2003
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Location: Guarding a corridor in BombMan's stage



PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-Fighter wrote:
The persona you assign the Captain completely disregards everything we learn about her within the game itself,



Well, all I know is that she's the only pilot to complete the impossible pilot's training course and took command of a frigate when it was under attack and held everything together until backup arrived. Also her speech as far as I've seen it, lead me to believe she had feelings for Jameson (I lost you once, I couldn't bare to lose you again) and she is overly cautious in everything that I've seen, from having Jameson fight to the dangers the Aegis is put into.

X-Fighter wrote:
while you give Bud a more care-free attitude than he ever exhibits at any point--he is perhaps the most cautious and overly-meticulous members of the crew.


I gave him one line, and the way I heard it as writing it, he wasn't being care-free. I'd like to know how saying that he's already got a minelayer targeted is being care-free. Also, he seems to me that he's not the most cautious of the crew in the game, because he's the one that suggests to attack the aliens fast and hard in the first area, that doesn't seem cautious to me.


X-Fighter wrote:
Overall, yes, your story sucked.


Thank you, that is what I was asking for. Granted, this was nothing more than a rough story I cooked up in 15 minutes, with none of my usual checking-double checking of spelling grammer and edits, so bear that in mind as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying not to give too much away...

As far as the characters, the actions you assign the two don't match--

Bud is extremely cautious, he gives long, full-bodied essays on exact steps to win every last boss battle, and is calculating and giving strategic analysis from the start(To paraphrase, it's something like "now that we've fought back, they know we're a threat, and will be back in force"). You have him encouraging chance, and that really doesn't fit in with the "My 4-page Essay on how to win the Zone 2 boss fight" guy.

You make the captain a rather cautious person that micro-manages things, when, in fact, she is possibly one of the most hands-off leaders ever(I mean, she's the captain, but who's getting to make all the important decisions like crew assignments, ship navigation, resource allocation, storage facility usage...?). Her very lax attitude plays throughout the story... she's very confident in her crew, and she cares for them deeply, but her role as a "leader" basically boils down to carrying out a few crew-suggested decisions and acting as a diplomat towards the intelligent life you come across.(And possibly the AI movement of the Aegis, although we never really get too much insight into that, and her inherent trust of the crew's abilities and judgement suggest otherwise).
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-Fighter - you may want to reread everything you have said, because I'm sure it wasn't your intention to sound so big headed and arrogant when you usually make very intelligent posts- I'm sure it's just a case of your style of writing not coming across well (ho ho Very Happy ), although I suspect you've been badly burned by something fanfic related and this has clouded your replies? Shocked . If SniperJoe hadn't already replied, I'd have just deleted it.

I get the impression you have experience as a writer, and sharing that experience here is cool but you could maybe help better by being a little bit more positive (after all, you want your advice to be effective and not a waste of your breath). I've always found when trying to help anyone with any form of art you need to show them what they could be doing better rather than saying something sucked (It's the old saying: If you can't say anything good then shut up Very Happy ). Maybe by rewriting the odd sentence or section to show what you think could be better and improve the whole story.

I really think your above critique isn't helping SniperJoe out, and may just be making him feel bad. The story was written as a little bit of fun, and is actually quite enjoyable. Odd bits of grammar spelling and sentence structure aside (and that's fine) I felt like I was there during parts of the story, it 'involved' me so I thought it was good. Maybe if instead we tried to improve on it that would be cool (and I think that's what SJ was after), so here's some random thoughts:

The characters are fine: I don't feel they are out of context: I always thought Bud was particularly angry; he feels he's let the crew down as the only military man on board, and he wants some payback, and I enjoyed the Rin backstory. Actually the bits where your character talks about others are the nicest parts - I'm pretty sure you have a good picture of all these characters in your head! More of the same would be good - I think this is a skill you should develop.

Not too sure if it matters how much anything deviates from The 'official' Starscape universe - I'd say just go with what you feel is best.

The parts I'd concentrate on with another draft would be whenever Jameson is describing something he personally is doing, or has done - it reads a touch 'dry', by that I mean - there's parts where you get across the feel-smell-sound-sight of what's going on, but then sometimes it's like a list of what's happening. I'm not a writer, so I'm not sure I can help out much here- I'm just trying to let you know what I feel when I read it.

The paragraph that starts: 'We flew patrol for the small fleet as she', whilst perfectly fine, uses a lot of 'she's and some refer to the aegis whilst some refer to Rin, which was a little confusing.

Hopefully some other people might chip in with ideas, as I don't think I'm particularly qualified Very Happy I honestly don't see the need to even critique fanfiction (although of course it's often posted with the hope of receiving ideas to improve it) - it's just there as is to be enjoyed as is, and most people realise that.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It apparently logs you out when you write a 12-paragraph response... Confused

Okay, capsulating the entirity:

I never intended to hurt SniperJoe's feelings, but he leveled that I was refering to him specifically when I spoke of the genre, and although I wasn't, I told the truth, as I see it.(Military saying: Don't Ask, Don't tell! Wink )

There's 3 main issues that would dramatically improve the story from an uninformed(non-StarScape-player) standpoint:

1: The transition at "as I...thought back" is very abrupt, and lacks any driving factor-- it either needs a significant event to trigger it, or SJ needs to work on "winding down" at the end of the fast-action replay of the early narrative. It sounds like another person has started narrating, otherwise.

2: If you can join 2 sentences together, by all means, do it. It makes it read smoother and more-natural. The only exception is when you intend to stress points. For comparison: "I want it! I want it now! I want you to do it!" vs. "I want you to do it, now!".

3: Within the same paragraph, you should avoid using the same word twice, and within the same sentence, you should never use the same word twice. The only possible exceptions are articles(a, an, the), and parallel structures, like the first sentence of this paragraph.

There's other problems with the story, but fixing those 3(especially the last 2) will dramatically improve it, eliminating most of the other issues as a side-benefit.

I'd lastly like to encourage people to write, it's a great art to do. I'd just encourage you to try and devise your own universes/people, as that completely avoids the whole "that's not like the characters to do that" issue.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, I would like to remind everybody that we don't know how old anybody else is. I know English teachers who would kill to have kids show that much dedication. Sorry if you're older than that, SniperJoe, no offense intended! The point is we don't know, and it's unfair to judge you in such a void of information.

I know you mean those as guidelines, X-Fighter, but you've written them like rules. There are exceptions, and describing those might help bring your post from a very "thou shalt" feeling to a more cooperative, reasonable tone. Sometimes it is good to repeat words, when you're making a point. Rather than saying "don't do it", I find it helps to explain what effect the technique has and why it's normally not something you want to do. In this instance repeating words draws the reader's attention to the use of that word in particular. A repeating structure can be useful because it makes the reader think about the parallels and the distinctions between each repeated item. It can be counterproductive if all it achieves is highlighting the limitations of your vocabulary. (So handy!)

Having said that, I'm going to be mean and nasty and put on my grammar-nazi hat:
SniperJoe wrote:
It was the only time me and my squad could fly in our own fighters

Lots of people get this one wrong. The use of the word "me" here is not correct. The word "I" is used as the subject of a clause (the do-er), while the word "me" is used as the object (the item something is being done to). For example, "I hit him", but "he hit me". In this case you should write "I and my squad..." or "my squad and I..." because "I" and "my squad" are the subjects of the verb "could". If you're using "and" in such a construction, pause to think how you'd say it for each person separately. Then you'll see it's obvious you'd write "I could fly" and "my squad could fly", but not "me could fly".

My general skimming didn't pick out much else that particularly upsets me, but do check your spelling in a dictionary when you're not sure. You're doing well, and certainly above Internet-standard, but good spelling is as important an asset online as good teeth are in person. Theoretically it's much easier to have good spelling than good teeth, but sadly I have not found this true in practice.

I now feel inspired to produce something myself. Hmmm...

Weeble.

PS - The preceeding grammar advice was written while drunk, so it might be a bit wonky. Caveat Emptor.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely the intention was to sound like a hardened fighter pilot?:

if you read 'me and my squad' it does sound wrong, however read it in 'movie trailer deep voice man' and 'me and my squad' sounds fine. I think it's always tough to get self narrative across, it's oddly something that works ok in comics because you can match the face to the speech. Not too sure what the solution is, maybe you need some way of putting us in the right frame of mind? Even a title like 'Fighter Squad leader Jameson's log Stardate blah blah blah' might help to some extent, as it puts you in the frame of mind that you are hearing speech, not reading narrative.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Structural analysis for points. Reply with quote

The start should normally grab you or make you think, this one goes for a grab, but the choppy sentences and repeated "me" "they" references puts a little too much thought into reading it, and it comes out sounding a bit like a list of sorts:
Quote:
The swarm of these cybernetic monsters traveled towards me, some already wildly shooting energy bolts and dumbfire missiles. At this range, their shots had no chance to hit me unless I wanted them to. What they lacked in smarts they sure made up for in sheer numbers.


Ommitting a few words words for flow, and combining sentences, we can improve this to a much more griping hookline: "The cybernetic monsters swarmed forward, wildly shooting energy bolts and dumbfire missiles--at this range, their shots had no chance to hit me, but sheer numbers would soon make up for their lack of smarts."
The next pargraph leaves alot of confusion as to who is doing what: We don't know who has the charging burst shot(the narrator's blasters or the cybernetic swarm?), the Corvette class ships appear to be targetting our narrator's torpedoes. The second sentence and following paragraph of this section stutters the action, as this intense narative suddenly starts trailing off after a stray thought at what would sound like the worst possible moment. We lose the thrill... imagine if this were a movie narative, and we had cut from the breathtaking battle scene to a bunch of scientists working on a metal hull.
Quote:
My MkIV Blasters were charged for their Burst Shot, targeting computer locking on a few of the larger Corvette class ships for my Torpedoes, and my new Missile Drones were keeping pace right behind me, ready and waiting for my signal to open up on the enemy ships. Heh, I'm still suprised at what the Prof and his team can come up with when they get their hands on alien technology.

The Devastator the Prof's team designed and JJ's team built sure helps out in putting all this technology to use. She holds all the stuff I want and has enough armor that she can dish it out as good as she takes it, if not more so.
In total, this section looks like the author had ommitted important facts of backstory and needed to tell us exactly what they are. It's great that the author told us, but that's the effect, the *author*, and not the narrator, told us. The "oh, and by the way" effect leaves the reader hanging, and as we're still attempting to grab the reader's attention, this would most likely be the point at which we lose readers who don't have some external incentive for continuing, such as fandom of the game. If the second half of this was cut out entirely, and moved to another section, say, after the end of the battle, it would build towards the needed flow of the story in both sections, particularly since we want to begin entering "flashback mode", rather than sporratic little jumps back and forth in time. It would also be advisable to combine the two references to the "prof's team" into a single sentence, as the seperation doesn't really add anything.
Next, we jump back to the action, which in current form leaves us wondering why we ever left:
Quote:
The Archnid scout fighters closed in on me first, small suckers and not much of a danger, but they sure get mean when in groups and in a group this large, they were royaly angry. Clicking off the safety my Burst Shot was let loose. An entire wave of energy screamed towards the tiny fighters, tearing the entire fleet up in a matter of seconds. Only a few moved quick enough to survive it. The larger fighters, of both Blaster and Missile builds came right through the cloud of debris, their weapons raining down intent on one thing, making me suck vaccume in the least amount of time possible.

Both missiles and torpedoes launched into space, their engines leaving trails of smoke in the void. Plumes of fire exploded around me as they took even more losses. I punched the afterburners and dived right into the middle of the party. Cutting the engines and rotating I fired my blasters as fast as the computer would allow, letting the inertia carry me through. Blaster bolts and energy rockets came too close and impacted my ship. The faint blue glow of my shields taking the hits and my draining battery reserves reminded me of how risky each and every time I do this, but no matter how close to losing it I get, I always love the adrenaline rush it gives me.

A blinking light on my display told me my shields were beginning to fail. Time to end this. I fliped open the safety cover and hit the red button. The Nova Bomb clunked into space, and I smiled as it exploded, dozens of energy missiles flying out from the bright flash and bringing a great ending to the furball.

A decent action piece, and one of the few exceptions to where it is okay to repeat yourself slightly, as if announcing for a sporting event in real-time. I personally don't have any idea what you mean by "a great ending to the furball"(What furball? Where did it come from?), and this confusion detracts from the piece as a whole.
With the apparent finality of the last section, the next one starts out as a decently transitioned portion, however, we suddenly have characters(the Aegis, Bud, Turrets, Main cannon) that we never heard of before, and we proceed through a series of sentence fragments that require the entire section to be read before even a vague comprehension of what's going on.
Quote:
I checked the radar and saw it wasn't over. One of the smaller corvette class ships, a Minelayer slipped through and dived towards the Aegis. Bud was already ahead of me by the time I turned my ship and opened the COM channel. "Don't worry man, I've got it targeted!" Four MkIII Turrets and the Main Cannon swivled around. Just as the two mini-turrets on the Minelayer began to fire Bud and the four volunteers opened up with their firepower. Twelve bolts of energy and a huge beam tore the corvette into scrap in no time flat. I gotta hand it to the crew, they've turned this science ship into a handy fortress since we were trapped in The Grid.
At this point, we'd want to insert the previously removed references to members of the crew and their accomplishments.

The next section presents another where we don't quite get filled in on the action. Something's happening, but exactly what and how, we don't know. It's also noteworthy that this makes even less sense in light of a non-Starscape view, as the reader has only had one brief moment ("The Nova Bomb clunked into space") that even begins to allude the fact that this isn't taking place on some planet. The setting has only been defined as "the grid" up to this point, and we never really do have that fact clarified.
Quote:
Flying back to the Aegis I noticed the debris field from the Minelayer. A small cluster of mineral crystals floated around, and light reflected off the metal of a few containers. Well, can't be choosy in this place, I'll always welcome another source of supplies. Within a few minutes my cargohold was filled to the brim with the crystals and equipment, the spoils of war as it were.
This whole little section would benefit from an expansion, and the lengthening would serve to not only help slow the tone down enough to make the upcomming transition meaningful, it would also allow a bit more explanation of details that have been ommited up to this point, such as where we are now, and what that means. Such elaboration would make the upcomming flashback far more logical and meaningful to the reader, and help bind the piece together as a whole. Consider adding maybe a paragraph or two of information.

Next, we begin the flashback, which, as I've discussed above, has no apparent reason other than "the author wants us to know this", and we get the same chunky feeling we had earlier.
Quote:
As I came close for docking, my thoughts wandered back to when we were first dropped into this armpit of the galaxy. How long ago? A few weeks, months, years? I can't seem to tell anymore with time so strange in this place.


We begin to get a few previously ommitted, badly needed details in this section. There are 4 uses of the word "and" in the very first sentence, either omit them completely("Me and my squad" could be condensed to just "My squad"), or replaced with more flow-promoting concepts(convert "to fly cover and keep the ship and the support fleet safe" to "to fly protective cover for the ship's convoy"). This segment contains the most unneccesary repetitive usages and combinable sentences, a thing to keep in mind while revising, you'll be likely able to spot most of these on your own.(There are atleast eight examples within the first paragraph)
Quote:
Me and my squad were reassigned from hunting down pirates and smugglers to this new experimental research ship, the Aegis, charged to fly cover and keep the ship and the support fleet safe for their voyage, a babysitting job. My whole team was flying the Avenger class fighters. Top of the line and fitted to our own tastes. Gunner prefered mostly Blasters, mostly trying to prove his name, and Zonna liked to use all missiles and extra ammo, with no blasters at all. She was always a bit crazy, but you couldn't doubt her skills. All of us were a bit steamed to be put on something so lowbrow, but orders are orders. You should have seen McPhereson's face when he learned we were gonna be in cold sleep for most of the trip. He always hated being in those tubes, saying they gave him nightmares or no dreams at all.

We flew patrol for the small fleet as she left spacedock, and I wasn't that impressed. No real weapons, minimal armor, but then again she was for research, not battle. She had a lot going for her if she was given Captain Fubuki to lead her. I remember some of the battles she fought in, both in capital ships and fighters. Best pilot in the whole sector, and knew her way around a bridge too. I remember I was one of the lead pilots that flew in to save her ship when it was ambushed by a battle fleet of five destroyers and a whole slew of fighters and corvettes. We fought them off, and thanks to her manuvering with that unyielding frigate, we won with only a few pilots lost. When my team and I arrived on the Aegis, she was more than happy to see me. I felt there was more; I didn't think I made that much of an impression on her back then, but maybe I did.
A moderate section, but if you can remove forms of the verb "to be"(is, was, will be) for more active ones, you could improve the section without altering the tone.("I rember I was one the lead pilots that flew in to save her ship when it was ambushed by a battle fleet of five destroyers and a whole slew of corvettes." to "I rember leading the pilots that flew in to save her ship from an ambush by a battle fleet of five destroyers and a whole slew of corvettes.")

More of the above, with the same fixes to apply as already mentioned.
Quote:
After a week of flight we were brought in and made like ice cubes. We traveled for years like that, only being brough out of cold sleep once every few months for checking the course and adjustments. It was the only time me and my squad could fly in our own fighters, so we savored each moment. When the ship was far enough away from Sol my squad was sent out for one last patrol before they turned their Dimention Drive online. During our patrol a meteor shower suprized us and we had to bug out. I made a few wrong choices in my direction and kissed a few too many meteors. My Avenger was nearly scrap and I had to take her in. I had to argue with Captain Fubuki to let me back into space with something to complete the patrol. She always seemed too cautious, and if it weren't for Bud, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere. They only had a small Runabout in the hangar loaded with a single blaster and grav beam, but it was something at least. My mission was to protect the Aegis, and I was bound and determined to do it.
The "she always seemed too cautious" sentence gives a great deal of insight and character depth to the other actors, but as I've mentioned before, doesn't resemble the "actual" ones at all. This is the worst sentence, from the perspective of a player of the game, and that's why I haven't let it slip.

Quote:
Launching in the little flying tub I joined my squad's formation and finished our sweep, trying to ignore the razing the squad sent my way. On our way back the Aegis had powered up the experimental drive, so we double timed it back. Just as we came close the whole thing overloaded and activated. I still remember the arcs of lightning going through the Aegis and grabbing the support ships, and then zapping us.

Then everything was dead quiet. I opened my eyes, wondering if it was heaven I was seeing. Hundreds of colors illuminated everything around me, and I could see ghostly images here or there, vanishing so fast I couldn't make them out. I moved my hand out, and it looked like it was being trailed by half a dozen images of itself, a few ahead of it, a few behind it. I passed out from the intense light show, only to awake in a near empty section of space.

I didn't know what to do, but within the hour my scanners picked up an inbound warp signiture. The Aegis emerged from the tear in space, and soon I learned that she was attacked during the jump. Cybernetic beings boarded the ship, killing nearly all of the security team on their way through, and raided the ship for everything not nailed down. The support ships were nowhere to be found, but most of all, my entire squad was gone.

To this day I don't know where they are, or if I'll ever find them, but I won't stop looking. I know they're around here in The Grid somewhere, and we've been through too much together for me to give up. I'm hoping they could have found a safe haven with the friendly Xenarch, but more and more I'm fearing they've been absorbed into the hive-mind of the Archnid.
It's of note we have no idea who the Xenarch or Archnid are in this story if we aren't StarScape players...

Now, we transition back to the "present" with relative ease. The sentence structure of the next paragraph is the best of the entire piece.
Quote:
Back to our current situation though. Just after I unload the crystals, supplies and refit my fighter, we get another inbound signiture. This huge ship beams in, activating a jamming signal that keeps us from warping out. I launch myself straight at the diamond shaped ship, letting my munitions fly once again, screaming out the rally cry of my team, seeing each of their faces as I vape the Archnid drones.
As non-StarScapers, we kind of know who the Archnid are now, which is good.

Example of good repetition use to grant stress:
Quote:
I'll find them. One way or another, I'll find my team.

As a StarScaper, we're kind of wondering how you got to zone 4 without rescueing anybody yet, but okay. Otherwise, this makes a moving conclusion from the analytical point of view.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks X-Fighter. That's more of the proper critiqing I'd prefer instead of "It sucks"


To answer your one last point, with Jameson not finding his team, I'm talking about his own squad, not the crew of the Aegis. In the story I tried to show how Jameson sees his friends and teammates (Zonna, McPhereson, Gunner [and the last few who had remained unnamed]) as his Squad, and is more friendly and knowledgeable towards them than he is the crew of the Aegis (like how he compliments the crew on making the Aegis into a fortress). This is my prefrence for the character, I've always liked the hard-rear-ended good guy who only befriends those who he's fought alongside for years. He already has a minor grudge against the Aegis because he's been assigned to such a babysitting job, even though it's changed a good bit from that, so is still 'detached' to them.

My reasoning behind that is because the Aegis had a team of fighter pilots, but Jameson is the only one to be found by the Aegis. To me, that says the Archnid found them first. Since the Aegis was first boarded and raided, I expanded that to believe that Jameson's team was attacked and taken by the Archnid, much like the Chief Rendon was in becoming the 'head' of the Archnid for speaking to the Aegis. In my own imagination, by the end of the adventure just before fighting the final boss, Jameson finds his entire team, part-human part-Archnid, in their Avenger fighters ready to do battle with him. A huge anime-like dogfight ensues, Jameson takes a beating, and only with the help of the Aegis at the last minute does he get the upper hand (though they help, Jameson would insist the Aegis pulls out, because it's HIS team he's fighting, so it's HIS responsibility to end their suffering). Jameson wins after a big beating, and then goes after the final boss with rage in his blood and revenge on his tongue.


And Weeble, just to let ya know, I'm 23, and no offense taken, we don't know how old anyone is. For all I know, the makers of this fine game could be my age or younger! The reason for the bad grammer/spelling through the story is because I didn't proofread it, didn't second and triple check it, and it was written in about 20 minutes as a quick story just for fun. Now if I had written this outside an internet fourm, like on my laptop where I have access to an auto-dictonary and a thesaurus, and gone over it time and time again like I normally would, then it would have been different. (and should I mention the spelling-grammer mistakes that were prominent in the first versions of Starscape?) But then again, depending on your country of origin, some misspellings aren't, when you look at such things as Armor-Armour.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SniperJoe3397 wrote:
In my own imagination, by the end of the adventure just before fighting the final boss, Jameson finds his entire team, part-human part-Archnid, in their Avenger fighters ready to do battle with him.



That would be cool in a sequel, 5 of your old crew mates transformed into Archnid Champions (more powerful, intelligent and semi-independant versions of normal drone soldiers). They could show up from time to time in ships almost as hard as your own with more complex dogfighting behaviour.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been occasionally known to write fanfiction for Final Fantasy, and one of the big no-noes there is to never refer to the battle mechanics. In the case of Starscape, that rule can certainly be relaxed to a degree (after all, it's a customised fighter, not a Cura spell) but I'd be wary of going into too much detail regarding the weaponry at this stage in time.

To be honest, you'll have to learn to take comments like 'it sucks' with good cheer. There'll be people out there who hang on your every word, slavering for more, and then there'll be those who just brush it aside. In that case, the most important thing to ask is 'why is it good? Where have I gone wrong? How can I improve it?' Smile

I just had a quick look through X-Fighter's post, but for some reason my brain is on freeze tonight, so I may be repeating him.

It may be better to drag the start of the storyline back a little while. Instead of dropping the reader right into the middle of a firefight -without the faintest hint of a backstory- maybe you should go from...say, the Aegis just coming under attack from hostile fire and a call to general quarters. That, however, is entirely up to you - it's your story. Smile

Above all, have fun Wink

[Edit:] Why is everything I write tonight so bloody disjointed? It's not fair, I tells ya Sad [/Edit]

[Edit2:] Hate to be nitpicky, but it's 'Chronicles'. It may have been corrected by someone else in the thread, but it's absolutely *vital* you spell your title right. Getting that wrong positively screams 'substandard'. [/Edit2]
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avarius wrote:
To be honest, you'll have to learn to take comments like 'it sucks' with good cheer.


Well, that's true, no one should take criticism to heart! I still feel however that if you post something like 'It sucks' you are only doing so to make yourself feel 'big', when in fact you just end up making yourself look stupid. Are we not aware of the term constructive criticism?

I've never looked hard at any writing forums, but all the art forums I regularly visit give the best kind of help to each and every member. Usually you will find there are many people who make you jealous of their amazing skill! When they post, then they get a lot of praise, maybe constructive comments about composition, lighting, etc or suggestions for variations to try.

You'll also get people who maybe have never picked up a pencil in their life having a go and posting. The difference in response is quite interesting: there is no difference - they are treated with the same respect as anyone else and are given any help that people can give.

I myself owe a great debt to such helpful people, and so on the rare occasions I feel I can ever offer anything helpful in such forums I jump at the opportunity.

Btw: the above doesn't imply anything about the quality of SJ's fanfic, which as I've said already I really enjoyed Very Happy

I don't want to sound like 'big brother', so I'll just say that this kind of unhelpful behaviour is frowned upon here, and anyone who feels like being rude rather than helpful should grow up a little first.
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Avarius



Joined: 03 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's certainly true, but oftentimes I've found that the best comments and criticism I've ever had have been very blunt and to the point. I, personally, would much rather have a group of people sit around and tear my works to shreds, nitpicking every plot hole and inaccuracy, so that when I rebuild it and bring it back to them, it's solid as a rock.

[Edit:] Oh, my and my SODDING commas. [/Edit]
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X-Fighter
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Joined: 07 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record, precisely how brief can I be with analysis before it's "okay"?

I'm left wondering, because very brief is berrated as ego boosting, deliniation of recurrent errors is railed against as condescending, and the half-finished once-over was overkill.
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Fost
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avarius wrote:
oftentimes I've found that the best comments and criticism I've ever had have been very blunt and to the point


I'll bet those comments weren't wholly dismissive though and at least offered advice on how to improve things. Can you honestly say someone told you your work was rubbish and offered nothing else and that was helpful to you? Maybe it's helpful to know where you stand I suppose, but if that's all you ever say to someone then that's all you'll get I find.
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Fost
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-Fighter wrote:
For the record, precisely how brief can I be with analysis before it's "okay"?


Just reread your first comments, surely you understand what's wrong with them? Brevity has nothing to do with it.

For the record, which critique were you happiest with? your first or your second.

constuctive criticism.
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